You just released a new EP, Tapestry Mastery on Birdman Records. According to your site, it's the first release to really capture your live sound on record. Was that a conscious decision going into the studio?

It was always a process of trial and error. All of the times before, we were under time limits. And we never really had time to just play around with trying to figure out the sound the way we [imagined it], moving mics around, and all that kind of stuff. It's always been "Ok, quick, we've got to do this. We've got this amount of time." The more you do it, the better idea you have about how to get your sound.

For some reason, when we record with people, they have a lot of preconceived notions of how it should [sound]. "This bass should be more bassy, and this should be like this." And when you try to record, you don't want to say no, you want to see what they think.

You never know what someone else is going to bring to the table.

Especially when you're working with someone, it's sort of like "why are we working with this person if we're not going to listen to them?" With [ Tapestry Mastery ], we came in with that in mind. We know what it sounds like, or what we imagine it would sound like, and we really make an effort to do that. Before, it would be "This is too noisy; we gotta make this clean." And then when [producers] mixed it, they mixed it in a weird way.

The first one, The Fugue in the Fog , was recorded at Brian McTernan's studio, but the first problem with that, I think, was that we had to do the whole thing in like two day or three days. And we didn't know anything about [recording].

The second record, OddEyeSee , we did in Silver Spring with Uncle Punchy. And he's really great, but he has a completely different version of the way he thinks we should sound, which is really cool for what it is. But when we started with Birdman, they said "When we see you live, there is such a particular feeling." You can never really capture what you're like live on record, because there's the visual element and all. ?What can you do to make it feel a little more like that??

How long did you have to record Tapestry Mastery ?

We recorded all the songs in like a day and a half. [But] this time, it was more [preparation in] that we had practiced them a certain way. We're gonna crank the volume and push it further, crank distortions and crank volume levels. Everyone before wanted make it a little easier to play with it, and cut [down the volume] so they could work with it. This time, we wanted to push it to the edge, and if it's a total mess, we would just start over.

So far, you've worked in a pattern of releasing an album, then an EP. What is appealing about that to you?

Usually, it's a phase where we're like "Let's try this idea that we have." It's nothing we necessarily want to devote twelve or fourteen songs to. It's just an idea that we came into: "Wouldn't it be fun if we tried doing this or that?" And I guess that's the appealing part. You can do something that you want to do but not feel like you have to be stuck with for a year.

It's easier to mentally think about: "Let's do four songs or five songs." It's not as much crazy-heaviness on your brain. When you put out a record, it becomes a process. You've got to have it in at this time, because this kind of promotion has to be done, and then you have to this and you have to do that. When you do an EP, it's a lot less pressure. They're not going to market it as much, and a lot of people don't review EP's. It's just something for yourself that you can do without it being "Oh, is this the real thing.?  

They do sort of get pushed aside, in the critical eye anyway.

Yeah, but then at the same time nowadays, it seems like EP's are doing well. Like !!! and TV on the Radio did really well with theirs. There is definitely a freedom to it; you can really concentrate on four songs or five songs. Certain bands seem to make their whole career on that demo or that EP.

The new songs have a lot of the same mythologies and fables that your previous work had. Where do these ideas come from?

It's always on tour when you start thinking of what your next thing is going to be or sound like. It could be something as silly as making a drawing and we're like "Wow, that's a pretty cool drawing" and then base a story around it. Or if someone is interested in a certain subject matter at the moment, like "I read this weird story about frogs." [Laughs]

And it sort of goes from there. It's easier to get everyone on the same page about an idea like that. Because a lot of times singers or songwriters come into the room and its something super personal like "It's about my girlfriend leaving me and dying of cancer." Everyone is going to ask "What are we playing this music to?" And the guy is like "I don't want to talk about it." [Laughs] How can someone else sum up that person's feelings about it?

As far as D.C.'s music scene as a whole, you guys really stand out in that regard. Do you ever feel that it holds you back, considering your music is so different as far as subject matter? It just seems that everyone gravitates so easily to that serious, political approach in this area.

I definitely grew up with the whole Dischord scene. I've been going to shows since '87, at DC Space and the Positive Force shows. At that time, I'd buy anything on Dischord. And I understand why kids still do, because there's that history and that lure. People say "Oh what's that new band sound like?" And if people told me at that age "It's like Soulside or like Jawbox," I'd be like "Cool, I'm there!" It's definitely an identity. It's something that you can join in. It's like collecting baseball cards or something like that. Or like action figures. [Laughs] "I got the new Blah Blah." "What's it like?" "Oh, it's like that same action figure but it's got a cool kung-fu grip. If you like this one, you'll like that one."

And then as you get older, not to say that this music is just for young people, but you feel more comfortable about yourself and your influences change.

In terms of how I feel about [our place in D.C.'s scene], at this point, I don't really think that much about it. When I think of what I enjoyed in the earlier 80's, especially with SST bands and stuff, was that every band was individual. And even when you look back at Dischord, you know, Holy Rollers didn't sound like Circus Lupus, which didn't sound like Nation of Ulysses, which didn't sound like Fugazi. Shudder to Think didn't sound like anybody. Maybe they had the common bond of being on Dischord, but I definitely think that what makes indie rock, or punk rock, or whatever you want to call it, interesting is that individual art to it.

We're more interested in the art aspect rather that necessarily a political message. Even though I think our songs have some sort of story, not political, but social story or comment about it. Or how we see things through [our] travels, stuff like that. We just appropriate them to characters.

One thing I've noticed is that, time and time again, every single article about your band seems to give such prominence to the fact that you don't have a guitarist, and that you have a woman playing keyboards. Does that ever get frustrating? Most reviews treat it as such a novelty, no matter how much praise they're giving.

You just know they're going to ask that. They probably have to do a thousand interviews, and they read the press sheet, and think "Ok, what can I say? Bass. No guitar." They always ask, especially when you're in the UK , [using an English accent] "Why no guitar?" And then they always say "Sounds primal or primitive."

That was my next question. Every other article had some sort of ridiculous ape pun or play on words.

We always have to have a monkey reference. [using an English accent] "They're throwing feces at you, but they smell like roses."

I guess its easy writing.

It gets to the point where you can't really expect anything else. [Laughs] It happens even when people are talking about artists: "Oh, this artist? Well, he uses elephant shit and does pictures of the Virgin Mary. That person uses resin and makes giant penises." People want to sum up things quickly.

People act like it's written on some stone tablet: singer, guitar, bass, drums.

Imagine playing hip hop?"Whoa, they nothing have except turntables? It's amazing!" [Laughs]

Where does your particular sound come from?

It's hard to say. Maybe it's because I went to college in Providence . We all got turned onto things at the same time by bands. Six Finger Satellite introduced us to Suicide, introduced us to Birthday Party, all of those bands that combined confrontation and rocking elements with other things. That was the common thread that everyone shares from Providence. That's why so many bands from Providence have that weird instrumentation as well. Everyone went to the same shows.

The show that started it all for everyone was the Boredoms. Everyone creamed their pants. Then everyone saw Godheadsilo, and everyone creamed their pants. Then this Japanese band came, C.C.C.C., and everyone went nuts. And Six Finger Satellite played everyone Suicide records and everyone went "Whoa!" It was just an aesthetic.

At the time, I would go home for the summer and be back in D.C. It was funny because I'd go to those shows, the shows at Fort Reno Park and stuff. But when I went back up to Providence, everyone would think it was funny. "Oh, D.C. You guys suck!" [Laughs]

Especially in the early 90's, D.C. had this vibe of not being very much fun. "Oh, you people are uptight." Other scenes were definitely more about "Whoa! Let's get crazy and have a fucked up show and a party." [Laughs] When you came to D.C., there definitely was that vibe of "Ok, the drum circle will be here, and then we're gonna hand out these pamphlets on how to put on condoms." [Laughs] It definitely had that. I wouldn't say an oppressing vibe, but it definitely kind of felt like you were in school. [Laughs]

Did you see that article in the City Paper earlier this year, blaming Fugazi for the lack of life and spontaneity of the D.C. music scene?

Yeah. I don't know. They're a great band, and that was kind of an angry, bitter article. If you try to deny their importance, I think that's insane, and to not give them credit for the amazing things they've done and the way they've shape things is utterly stupid. All they've ever tried to do was to be a band and do their thing without anyone interfering.

When I do interviews, [people always ask] about the D.C. scene. It's not really a scene anymore. It's more just about people hanging out. Every band hangs out at the Pharmacy Bar, and everyone is very individualistic. Canyon is Canyon, and Dead Meadow is Dead Meadow, and Trans Am is Trans Am. Every band just seems to do their thing.

You have a pretty legendary live show. I remember seeing the show at Baltimore 's Ottobar when you opened for Mudhoney ?

Yeah, that was awesome. That was fun.

I was standing over by the merchandise table, and a kid ran up to Jeff [Schmid, the Apes drummer], just gushing and telling him that it was the greatest live show he's ever seen. He was covered in sweat, and just going crazy.

Yeah, when people come up and say [things like that], it's always weird. You just think of it as being just you and your friends, sitting in the basement practicing, playing X-Box. When someone says that, it's weird. You see yourself, or you think about it, and you're just like "You just must not go to a lot of shows." [Laughs] It's always nice when people enjoy what you do. How could it not be? It was weird playing with [Mudhoney], because they were one of my favorite bands to see. When I saw them, they were like gods to me. And maybe ten years later, here I am playing with them.

When I think about seeing shows at the old 9:30, bands I saw like the Jesus Lizard , it seemed like a thousand people were there, but when I think about it, it wasn't anymore than 200 or 250.

I remember I saw Nation of Ulysses, Born Against, and Bikini Kill at this place in Providence . A tiny little place. I'd say there were probably about 80 people there at the most. And it was definitely one of those times where you're like "Whoa! I want to be in a band, and I want to play music."

Like something's really happening.

Yeah. It's just like that movie 24 Hour Party People. There's this big part of it when he talks about all of these great events that happened, [and that] there were only like five people there. That's what I think about. At that show with Nation of Ulysses, who was there? All the guys from Lightning Bolt, all these bands, Six Finger?all those guys where there at that show. I remember when we were leaving, and we all said "Let's form a band." [Laughs]

Seriously, everyone knew. There was discussion about it afterwards. Everyone went back to their dorms, and was like "If I had a band, I would use weird keyboards." [Laughs] Certain things like that have a profound effect. If you asked the band, they would probably say "Oh, it sucked. My stuff broke, and we just had a shitty performance, and I felt sick." [Laughs] But to everyone else, a lot of people can't read that, you know?

The intensity on stage when you play, is that an extension of the music? When you practice, is it that intense?

Yeah, sometimes it can. It just depends on the mood. Definitely. I like it because it's just a sense of freedom. Something that can make you get into it and rock out. Most of the time we practice quietly, but if we're getting ready for a show or recording, we crank it. Definitely, we start getting into it. It starts getting physical.

What about the costumes. Where does that fit in?

The costumes are just, like you said, something living in D.C., you get tired of seeing people in navy blue t-shirts. [Laughs] Just standing there. And they get on-stage with the same clothes and they got off with the same clothes. And you see them down the street the next day with the same clothes. If you're getting up there, why not give some people a little more, give them something more to enjoy. And it helps us get into it more. It's almost getting into character. People are like "that's too rock," but you want to see something up there. Anything to make it a little more of an event. And it helps me play. "Ok, I've got to go change now." [Laughs] You sit there and think about it, and you're getting your pants on. [Laughs] Like John Travolta getting ready for Saturday night. You know, doing his hair, and doing the little kung-fu moves.

You guys have toured with quite a few indie-rock heavy hitters: Les Savy Fav , Liars , the Mars Volta , GoGoGo Airheart . Especially with Les Savy Fav and Liars, how did those relationships develop? You were pretty much taken under Les Savy Fav's wing, and were signed to [Les Savy Fav bassist] Syd Butler 's label, Frenchkiss Records. And Liars must have opened for the Apes a handful of times on the Black Cat's Backstage, even before they had a record out.

Yeah, it was weird. It's sort of how we got our start. Actually, I went to college with the guys [from Les Savy Fav], and we sort of knew each other, but didn't hang out that much. When we started the band, we had no idea where to begin, how to get shows, stuff like that. So we just e-mailed a bunch of people in bands we like, and someone got us in touch with Amanda MacKaye. And she was just like "Hey, why don't you come to my house and I'll help you guys out." She never even heard us, never heard a demo tape, never heard anything. And she was just like "I book shows every now and then for my friends. Les Savy Fav's playing at the Black Cat. Do you want to play a show with them?" [Laughs] I was like "Yeah, sure, why not?"

So we played a show with them, and we all got along. We played a few more shows with them, and they were like "Hey, we're starting a label. Do you want to be on the label?" And we were like "Sure. That's awesome."

And Liars, it was the first time we were playing New York City , and it was their first show ever. We just started hanging out, and become best buddies after that. It was their first show ever, and I was like "You guys are going to be huge. You guys sound amazing. Blah blah blah." And then we just became good friends.

It's weird, when I think back to how many bands we've played with that are now really big. We just met, and then no one had any ideas that things were going to be huge or anything like that. Everyone was just doing it to do it. And after the Strokes, the whole atmosphere of everything changed.

It's sort of a mini-Nirvana thing. Bands start getting picked out of the woodwork, some deservedly so.

Yeah, definitely. It was so weird. Everyone used to play with each other. It would be a line-up where it would be Liars and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs . And out of nowhere, everyone started getting picked off. So that was cool
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What's next for you guys? It said on your website that you're in the process of writing a new album?

We're organizing a full-length for Birdman. We're [figured] let's just do the EP to see how we get along with Birdman. And everything has been going really well. We already recorded five songs for it, and we're gonna do five more songs at the end of this month, and then do three more in August and mix it. Hopefully it'll come out in January. But it's going really well, and everyone is really happy with the new material. Everyone's really stoked.

Is this one going to be a concept album, like OddEyeSee ?

Yeah, once again it's another concept album. [Laughs] It's the easiest way for us to work, it seems like. Getting all the ideas together and stuff like that
  What about touring? It seems like you've slacked on D.C. dates lately. Anymore of those planned in the future?

Well, we're playing next Friday at the 9:30 Club.

Well, right, but?

That doesn't count?

Well, it's an opening spot. I'm looking for more headlining gigs.

I'd like to, but it's always kind of difficult to play in D.C. It's just so much more pressure. We could play in New York whenever we feel like it. But playing D.C., at least with some of the clubs, it's like "Well, how many people are you bringing?" It's very bottom-line [driven]. "You've gotta get X amount of people in here, and you better, or if not, you're not going to play again." .

It seems odd to me. You guys have played the Backstage countless times?

But that's safe. [Laughs]

Well, right. But there were quite a few times that place was packed to the gills. I remember stepping in there and having to stand shoulder to shoulder with people. I'm surprised you haven't played a headlining gig at the Black Cat yet.

I don't really know what the deal with it is. Someday I think we will. [Laughs] Every time recently we've played D.C. it's gone really well. I think it would be fine, but there's that pressure where suddenly you think "Ok, gotta call up my friends and make sure everyone goes."

The slightest thing might turn off everybody to going out. It might be raining or the last episode of Friends is on. It's just one of those things. The stars have to align perfectly right for it to work unless you're a band that always has a decent crowd. Certain bands just have that kind of vibe. But a lot of our following isn't younger people. It's definitely that older crowd that, if it is raining, they're going to puss out. "I've got a big day tomorrow." It's hard to work all day and then dedicate yourself going to a show. Especially if you've been to a million shows and chances are it's going to suck. [Laughs]